Boycott turned Bad.
Has anyone watched CITV? I watched it this weekend and was amazed at what I saw.
I saw footage of the riots in 1977...I saw the Mirrors program graduation...I saw an interview with Dr. Eva Hodgson and her views on race and the economy in Bermuda...
What I didnt see was PLP this, PLP that, or UBP this, or UBP that.
So my issue is that the UBP chose to boycott the launch of CITV in September because they thought that it was PLP TV. The Milkman verbalized the UBP's intention to get rid of the station if they were to win the government. Deputy Leader Mrs Gordon Pamplin, also branded the station an "unnecessary expense" in a press conference last week. Have they seen it? Have they watched it? I think not. If they had, they would realize that it isn't hardly PLP TV and it is definitely not an 'unnecessary expense'.
This channel provides Bermudians with a view into our past, present and future. It shows things that have happened to mold the society that we have to day. It is a wonderful opportunity where all Bermudians can reminisce on times, both good and bad, and gain perspective on our culture. Are the Milkman and his cohorts so afraid for the general populus of Bermuda to recognize and appreciate our culture? By their boycotting of our tv station, they are in essence boycotting what makes us who we are. If they are elected, will we then have to rely on ZFB and VSB to guide us? I hope not.
They boycotted US when they boycotted OUR tv station. Let's boycott the UBP on Dec 18th
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Programming topics
Hey what's the content of the other programming on that station? Anything else of interest?
Regarding ZBM/ZFB and VSB, they most likely could indeed broadcast more local programming. But I'm not sure they're equipped (understaffed and inferior equipment) to go out and produce their own shows (they do Youth Talk, which is something). I don't know who produces The LearnALots.
Alright, hopefully we'll be back after the election
It is now abundandtly clear that whoever is scribing and moderating on this site has no interest in discussion unless that discussion is along the lines of: the PLP rock and the UBP suck. I can only hope that this will change following December 18th, so we can resume some of the goals set about by the page's founding.
Good luck winning your election.
Government TV
Writing on Progressive Minds, 30strong argues that cost of CITV, the Government's new TV station, is justified because its programming is cultural, not partisan...
http://www.limeyinbermuda.com/latest_news/2007/11/an-unnecessary.html
Therein lies the problem
Limey,
the governments job IS to run the country, and when it realizes that things arent going properly, and that certain segments of bermuda culture and history is underrepresented in the media, and it has the opportunity to right these wrongs, then why can't it? You say you caught Wayne perinchief's interview. Did you also see the Mirrors graduation, the Smithsonian Folk-life Festival, and a few other shows that i dont recall the names of but that gave good insight into bermuda culture? Or, how interested are you really? I venture to say not at all. it doesnt matter to you because you know your culture and history, and Bermudian culture isn't that relevant to you. But to many Bermudians, we want to know our past, and this is an opportunity to enhance that knowledge. What is wrong with the Government assisting in this process?
The private sector is already producing those programmes
Bermuda Broadcasting, DeFontes, LookTV, Onion TV and maybe even Fresh produce plenty of local programming between them. Everything I know about Bermuda's beekeepers and quarries I learned from LookTV.
It is not the Government's job to produce this stuff.
Its not the Government's job
Its not the Government's job to show/expose Bermudians their Culture?
So I guess the Department of Community and Cultural Affairs should be privatized?
Personally I like the programming they have so far. The more angles we can see Bermuda and its people the better IMO
Are you serious, Limey?
How can you say that the few shows here and there can compare to the constant presence of the CITV? In quantity and quality CITV is better. Plus the private stations won't touch some of the topics that are shown. Don't get me wrong some of the shows are a little boring I can admit (I'm not really into deep sea fishing like that) but I'm sure it interests others. The private sector cannot touch CITV when it comes to local programming. Be honest, sheesh.
Honest?
Why must you accuse me of dishonesty? Can you not simply accept that I have a different opinion to you?
Disagreement does not equal dishonesty.
Would you prefer the term be
Would you prefer the term be for real. 'Cause that's what I meant. I was in no way implying that you were lying maybe a little blind or having poor taste but not really a liar.
Enlighten Us Limey
Limey,
You say it is not Governemnt's job to produce cultural shows, thna please tell us whose job it is to do so? is it not the role of the Government to promote the cultural history of a country, surely this cannot be left to the private sector.
No, Are You Serius?
Sure, government can promote our history, i'm all for it. But, surely they could have used all of that money (I can't find the article which details the money spent on salaries and other expenses at the moment, but it's over $250,000.00) to better inform people of their history and culture. For instance, why not introduce Bermuda history, heritage, and culture courses in the school systems. Surely that would do much more in terms of giving people an insight into our past, without costing over $250,000.00.
Honestly, how can you say it's the government's job to produce TV shows? I think it's the Government's job to solve more important, every day problems. People aren't living out on the street becaused they don't know Bermudian history. Affordable Housing didn't become a problem because we don't know our culture. Can you even argue that by watching this Government TV station that you are going to have a real, complete knowledge of our history/heritage?
My point is simply that I think it's ridiculous to spend so much money on a tv station when there are so many other alternatives that could be done to still promote our culture/history/heritage. But no, lets throw away money on something that I would be willing to bet less than 30% of the island will actually watch on a regular basis.
Look around
JasonR,
Please take the time to look around, especially in the Caribbean region (for touristic and sporting purposes Bermuda is lumped in with the Caribbean) and you will find this is the norm. This occurs because in many cases the private sector does not view this as profitable and as it is the job of the Government to promote the heritage of the country, the Government picks up the cost of many cultural related t.v. shows. Just because it may not have been the norm in Bermuda before does not mean it should not happen.
Cultural identity is something that needs to be promoted because it is of interest to many who visit Bermuda as tourists. Some people travel just to get to understand the culture and history of various countries and if we can bring the archives to life through t.v. programmes this should be supported by Bermudians.
You bring up a good point about teaching our history in our schools, wehn I have addressed this topic the response has been, "What does learning our history have to do with passing internationally recognised exams?" I have always been a proponent of teaching Bermuda's history in our schools and exams aside I think it is very important that Bermudians know the history of their country.
How many Bermudians know that Eleuthera, a Bahamian Island was first settled by the Eleutheran Adventures, a group that left Bermuda to avoid religious persecution and that the captian of the adventure, William Sayle, was one of the first Bermuda Governors?
Seems to me many simply want to nitpick at what this Government does. I hear complaints that the Government is not doing enough for Tourism, the Government runs ads to promote Bermuda as a tourist destination, the Government has increased the airlift to the Island at reduced costs. What more is the Government supposed to do to attract tourists to Bermuda, handcuff them and bring them?
It just seems that no matter what the PL Government or does not do there is a sector of Bermuda that will always find reason to complain.
Why can't it?
The British government does not produce cultural programmes about Britain. As far as I know, the American government does not produce cultural programmes about the US. So why does the Bermudian government need to do so?
We are not England. We are
We are not England. We are not the USA.
And why are you even comparing UK and the USA with Bermuda. Do those imperialist countries even need to produce cultural programs?? Their culture has been shoved down peoples throats for 100s of years, they dont need a TV station for that.
Have you sat downand watched CITV?? I have learned alot from it, and I am very impressed with the quality of programming so far. Many others express this sentiment.
It is not often we see historical pictures of our past and stories relived.
Lets try to think about what other people write, cmon now.
"We are not England. We are not the USA."
You'll have to excuse me for being sarcastic but, how long did it take you to think up that one guy?
Obviously, we're neither of those "imperialist" places. (I'm slightly confused with what the point was of using imperialist also, was there one?)
But anyway, is Bermuda and its government so infallible that we can't compare ourselves to other places as a way to judge how we're doing? The whole empowerment idea didn't start here in Bermuda. We borrowed that from someone else after comparing their practices, to our own.
Obviously Bermuda has differences that mean you can't always compare us to other places. But I really don't think that applies to what we're talking about here.
Bottom line, Government doesn't need to be in the entertainment industry to promote culture; and to try and argue that their TV station is going to have a real chance in educating the greater population in our culture and history is really quite crazy when you think about it. Again, there are so many other alternatives (that would cost so much less) that could be pursued, and honestly I believe produce better results.
Why choose the UK and U.S.
Limey,
Take a look at the Bahamas, Jamaica, Barbados, etc. which are countries to Bermuda from a cultural perspective. How can you possibly compare Bermuda to the U.S. and UK, when their children learn of there country's hisotry in school.
I can tell you this, young Bahamians have learned of their history in school. Young Bahamians know who Sir Lyden Pindling was along with others who helped to shape the Bahamas as it is today because of history being taught in schools and from the Government broadcasting t.v. programmes.
In Bermuda it seems to be perfectly acceptable for our students to be taught about UK and French history to the exclusion of the hisotry of their own country.
Whose fault is that?
If Bermudian children are not being taught the history of Bermuda in school, whose fault is that?
My ideas on teaching Bda history
Guilden,
Since you seem so adamant about teaching Bermuda history in our classrooms I thought I would add my 2 cents to the whole debate. Currently we learn world history in our classrooms. We do not focus on just the UK or US aspect but rather spend time looking at various different countries and the role they played in history. Bermuda is too small to focus completely on teaching its own history in classrooms and the time isn’t there in a normal school day to add another course to the already huge workload of students. Whether you like it or not we are living in an ever gloabalized world where those who do not gain world skills and knowledge will be left behind. I think you’ll find the reason the Caribbean is able to teach its own history is because, as a whole, there is a globally recognized Caribbean (gcse?) certificate at the end of the day (and because as a region they are sufficiently large enough to do so). Bermuda just doesn’t have the size to enable itself to create such a programme. Now, I am all for learning Bermuda’s history – I actually really enjoy it and try to read as many old Bermuda books in my spare time as I can. I think I posted in an earlier thread my ideas for teaching Bermuda’s history, but I will try to go over the main points again here: I think teaching is best done in a classroom (read: ‘not on tv’). I’m sure there are enough people (of all ages) who want to learn about our history that would attend either classes at the Bermuda College or weekly/monthly seminars that aim to give them advanced knowledge of given topics. I think the seminars would be more popular but both would need to be free and open to the public. We could have local speakers (historians) give unbiased views of the facts and, if need be, allow the participants to make up their own mind on the issues at hand. Teaching local history in schools is a harder issue to tackle. I just don’t think the demand is there to warrant a new curriculum for it. However, the creation of a ‘Bermuda History Club’ which could be taught at individual schools or at a central location would enable those who want to learn the opportunity to do so. In having a combined club kids would not only get to spend time with students with similar interests but might also get to learn with others who they might not get the chance to at their current schools. I should be able to answer any questions on this if you post today…this weekend I will be pretty busy.
Drew
JasonR
First of all that comment I posted was to repsond to limeys post for stating:
"The British government does not produce cultural programmes about Britain. As far as I know, the American government does not produce cultural programmes about the US. So why does the Bermudian government need to do so?"
So talk to him about comparing Bda to the UK..
Second of all, your comment
" Government doesn't need to be in the entertainment industry to promote culture; and to try and argue that their TV station is going to have a real chance in educating the greater population in our culture and history is really quite crazy when you think about it. Again, there are so many other alternatives (that would cost so much less) that could be pursued, and honestly I believe produce better results."
Newsflash.. If you talked to people who have watched the station you would see how impressed they are with the programming and the fact that they learn something about Bermuda, whether it be about the history of the bridges that connected the island, to the creation of the Botanical gardens". These are adults, and TV is a very convienient means for them to gain knowledge.. what do you want, governemt to hold workshops or classes for adults to learn about Bermuda history?? CITV gets information about Bermuda to the masses of all genres.
I was fortunate enough to attend Berkeley and we did learn about Bermuda History.
And it funny how you mention "other" alternatives, if that is the case why wasnt it done before??
Its only until the Government took initative, people start complaining. If the Gov't didnt have this channel with the programming we wouldnt have any channels that look at Bermuda history in the capacity it is shown now. No disrespect to Look TV, but I think CITV does a better job at showcasing Bermuda.
Politics or Love of country?
I am reading this debate and I can't help but wonder if the persons who are against it truly care about this island. From where I'm sitting it just doesn't sound like it.
I support the station becuase it shows me Bermuda, my island, my country my home. I am given a chance to learn more about my island than I did in high school. I too attended the Berkeley and learned Bermuda history but the station is providing me with so much more history. And I am a history buff. I love it. So of course I'm not going to complain about learning more. Yes there is a cost associated with the station but I just feel it's worth it. The station not only provides an opportunity to learn about the island but also helps grow that sense of national pride that Bermudians lack IMO. Can you put a price on that? Mind you from other posts it seems that the same people who feel that we shouldn't have a gov't station don't seem to have much national pride either.
JasonR, you said that there are other alternatives that can be pursued to teach Bermudians about their culture. I have to ask: like what? Guilden mentioned lectures and the like but I find that lectures don't get people out in numbers. ANd it's not that they're not interested but time and travel is a factor. At least with CITV you can turn the tv on have it in the background while you fix your famil'y dinner or watch your children. You know what I mean? So what other options are there?
Limey asked who's fault is it that BErmuda history isn't taught in school. Answer is the government. Of course. But let's keep it real schools have existed in Bermuda for over a hundred years and Bermuda history has not been tauight sufficiently in any of that time. So becuase it wasn't done right in the past should be continue to make the same mistake? That's not progress.
And Guilden hold on. The curriculum is coming! One of the things the premier has said from day one of being elected to run the party was that he wanted more Bermuda history in the schools and that he wanted history books to reflect Bermuda and Bermudians. He said you should be able to open a book and see yourself there. This is great for the younger generation but for those of us who cannot return to their younger years (no matter how much they'd like to) i'll say this: At the second open mic session with the Premier at Greg's Steakhouse Alia Hamza asked as a citizen of Bermuda what is the government doing to help Bermudians learn more about Bermuda history. She was told hold on CITV is coming. There are people who want to know, who weren't able to know in their formative years about Bermuda's history.
I equate CITV with caring about Bermuda because that's all the channel itself is about. But people seem to think that what we have is enough though others don't. Are we so blinded by politics that we ignore the benefits to the country? CITV may have a 250k price tag but the benefits are priceless. To me anyway.
Fully agree
You're spot on Deanda, I agree that any improvement in our cultural understanding - particularly one available to all Bermudians free of charge - is a good thing. Personally, I'd like to see the channel have 0 politics included, unless of course its historical. When the station first came about it was branded much more along the lines of PLP tv, which was clearly misleading, and I'd imagine this is what people are against.
Watching this election unfold is really unsettling. We're all Bermudians before we're white or black, PLP or UBP. This whole election has been about us versus them, but we're not really that divided. Well I hope not anyway!
jumped to conclusions
beachryan, i think many people, including Mr Dunkley jumped to premature conclusions about this statiion, and now have to eat their words. Dunkley's declaration to shut down govenrment tv was ridiculous. Why would you declare that without even seeing one bit of the content?
CITV
Well...you all missed the point, but that would be an industry insider perspective.
First off, its about principle, and the future liability. Lets just say the UBP win on the 18th,,,I know,,,ha..ha...ha...but the reality is that a gov station set up with gov control can...and will eventually go wrong regardless of who is in power. Look to countries with gov stations and you will see their politics are not what we would like to endure.
Second, I actually agree with the need for programming, but think it could have been easily achieved by contracting one or all of the existing TV stations, Fresh,look, vsb,zbm,zfb which are all bleeding red ink, to produce and air.
In my mind it was really about the principle of Gov broadcasting...and the money. It could have been achieved with existing stations. In fact, the content could have run on all stations with the overall budget that has been allocated to this project.
In so many instances, private and public, we dont seem to like to partner with other people or businesses to achieve our goals. We have so much duplication in so many charitable, public and private projects....why??
Govt. TV
". Look to countries with gov stations and you will see their politics are not what we would like to endure.In my mind it was really about the principle of Gov broadcasting...and the money. It could have been achieved with existing stations. In fact, the content could have run on all stations with the overall budget that has been allocated to this project."
this makes no sense - PBS (govt. broadcaster) is constantly praised for being more truthful and unbiased than private broadcaster (Fox, CNN, etc.)
Some Bdans are always complaining that BET (private sector) is ruining our kids - but now that the govt. is offering an alternative the haterz are whining.
Govt. TV
Limey has it wrong about culture being promoted byteh private sector as opposed to the govt. - the cbc (cdn), the bbc (brit), sabc (south africa, zdf (germany), pbs (usa) and many euro countries have govt. run tv networks! that spend millions promoting their culture on television.
cbc,bbc,
CBC and BBC are not Gov run stations. they are partly funded by Gov. No Gov or dept or Minister can influence content, in fact its just the opposite.
Wrong Again
CPB (PBS) Tenure
Keneth Tomlinson was appointed to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting's board of directors by President Bill Clinton and was confirmed in September 2000.
Tomlinson was appointed as chairman of the CPB board by President George W. Bush, for a two-year term, in September 2003...
again - govt, appointee
Not so
Vanz I think you have that wrong. Most of those networks are run by bodies which are independent of direct government control.
Again Ur wrong
having worked at both the SAC and the CBC i know for fact that the head of both of those orgs are federally appointed - and unofficially many key people at national broadcasters and film boards (govt. orgs that make films) are often "appointed".
Hubert Lacroix
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Hubert T. Lacroix (born July 13, 1955 [1]) is a Canadian lawyer and the next president and CEO of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC), the national public radio and television broadcaster.
He was appointed president and CEO of the CBC, effective January 1, 2008, by Prime Minister Stephen Harper in November 2007 replacing the current president Robert Rabinovitch.[1]
PBS is a private, nonprofit
PBS is a private, nonprofit corporation.
And so far as I've been able to find, the rest of the stations you listed are also not Govt run and owned. They do however have to report to regulatory committees.
The CBC could be the closest to 'govt run' in that it's mandate states that it's content must "be predominantly and distinctively Canadian" and that it reports annually to Parliament. So I guess Parliament has somewhat of a say in what it produces.
Can anyone find any sites, links showing that all these stations are Govt run?
Where did you get the information from Vanz?